National healthcare for all

[Just Plain Ruff]

Let's all remember also with Hillarycare that we have no choice, we have to get this healthcare.

If you do not then you can be charged with a criminal offense because you "HAVE" to have this insurance.

Just another incident of government wanting to get bigger.

[johnbasic]

i like the idea so that way u know who ever u work for will get paid at leat something.

[Dustdevil]

The federal government is the very reason healthcare is screwed up to begin with! Do we really want them in charge of anymore change? Seriously! I guess if you believe in the old, "you break it, you fix it" school of thought, then maybe this makes sense to you. But not to me. I mean if some idiot with no regard for automobiles borrows my car, strips out the clutch, and blows the engine, he will NOT be the person I get to drop a new clutch and short-block in there for me! I'm going to keep that guy as far away from my car as possible and give it to a professional to work on.

Politicians are not medical professionals. And, quite obviously, they are not even management professionals. I'll take care of me and my family. You take care of you and yours. Can't do it? Oh well. Darwin wins.

[Redcell19512]

I'll take care of me and my family. You take care of you and yours. Can't do it? Oh well. Darwin wins.

I fully agree. What concerns me is the number of people who feel the exact opposite.

[kristo]

First of all, let's compare the US system to the rest of the civilized world. Please show me *any* other 1st world country that does not have universal health care.

Second of all, universal health care is not equal to communism. It does not have to mean that all healthcare providers work for the government. One could think of a lot of other ways, eg. state-sponsored minimal health insurance for the unemployed, in addition to medicare/medicaid (which, from what I've heard, is not that good, but at least it's something), and make employers buy an insurance for their employees from private insurance companies. A legislature would probably be needed to define the minumum coverage.

This does not even have to be that expensive, if the largest reason for high medical costs in the US is removed: frivolous law suits. It may be time to put a maximum amount of damages that can be awarded in malpractice cases.

The "I take care of me and my family" argument is moot, unless you also plan to build your own roads for your car, grammar school for your children, and hire your own police officers to take care of law enforcement around your house.

Even the discussion of removing universal health care would be considered ridiculous anywhere else in the world. Health care is not a luxury.

[prettyone]

Kristo you are right its not a luxury, but rather a necessity in this day and time. Myself struggling right now with a major PPO and medical bills I know 1st hand what its like to have the red tape of individual and group plans.

Why should someone in our day and time ever, ever, have to think about "gee I'm injured in serious accident or other and wonder, how they would I be covered."

We Soooo need UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE! Ok, prettyone is off her soap box now.

[Scaramedic]

Prettyone that is why we have insurance, auto, homeowners and medical insurance. If you think you are struggling now with medical bills imagine trying to pay more taxes, higher co-pays (yes, you will still have co-pays), and have to deal with a system that works like Medicare.

The difference Kristo did not mention is that Europe has a much higher tax burden than the U.S. No matter what anyone says it WILL mean higher taxes. There is no free universal healthcare the money comes from somewhere. Remember when thousands in France died because of heat related illness, part of the reason why is that a majority of Dr's were on vacation and refused to come back. Is that the kind of system you want?

Our healthcare system needs improvement but universal coverage is not it. Also explain to me why it more of a necessity than it was 25 years ago.

Peace,

Marty

[JPINFV]

1. Show me where in the constitution that the federal government has the right to legislate mandatory health care? That honestly is stretching the interstate commerce clause a little too far.

2. Universal health care should only be an option when we decide that the government has a right to tell us what to do if it involves our health. Why should I pay for the health problems that someone else has due to their own fault [obesity, drinking, smoking, etc].

3. Why would anyone trust the government with more money? Earlier this week, a report came out reporting that employees in numerous government agencies were flouting both the governments guidelines, as well as in many cases their own agency's rules, regarding first class vs coach airline seats [guess which one they were using]. Over the past year, they had wasted over 146 million dollars for first class or business class travel. Yea, these are the same people that I want to trust with more of my money.

[article regarding the report: http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/03/tra...e.ap/index.html ]

[aussiephil]

The notion of a national health scheme need not be overtaxed. We have a scheme here that places a 2.75% levy on all working people to provide free basic healthcare for all.

That is not to say it is without fault. There are some, however people still have a private insurance option.

Healthcare in any first world country should be a right & a social obligation, that is not a communistic view. ALL people deserve to have their medical problems dealt with in a timley & appropriate manner.

There is no reason that health systems cannot enter in to Public/Private partnerships where they run both systems bilaterally. With doctors providing services for both types of patients.

A system that insists on people being able to access basic healthcare needs via insurance is a third world concept & further increases the divide between the haves & the have nots.

We have no argument about governments of any country spending copious amounts of taxpayer monies on defence (or attack as the case may be), massive polititian pay rates just to name a couple, but neglect any form of national free basic health service is, in my opinion, obscene.

Phil

[crazycanuck]

Well from the perspective of being a consumer of health care in both Canada and the US, I have seen both sides of the tarnished coin. All of us are going to have an opinion on this topic shaped by our own experiences. So that being said, this is my personal 0.02 for whatever it may add to this discussion.

The biggest question I ask you to think seriously about is this: WHAT DID YOU EVER GET IN LIFE THAT WAS SUPER FANTASTIC GREAT..... FOR FREE?!?!?!?! For most of us, the answer to this once carefully considered is ....absolutely eff all.

That may seem ultimately pessimistic but coming from the magical land of "free" aka tax-funded health care, I can say I have received better medical care as well as better customer satisfaction for every damn dollar I have paid into US medical insurance and medical bills.

The system is not perfect either way, and I do believe in order to find a balance it may be a public and private sector joint effort.

While it is atrocious that people may have limited access to basic medical care in the United States due to lack of financial resources or ineligibility for health insurance, the access problem still exists in a "socialized" medical system. Instead of being limited outwardly by the almighty dollar, it is limited by a lack of access due volume of usage and wait lists.

In the US, people suffer and perhaps die from lack of medical care because they can't afford it or lack resources.

In Canada, people die on obscene waiting lists (unless they cash pay and hop the border) or due lack of access because they can't get regular medical attention other than in an ED with an 8+ hour waiting list. This is even worse in rural health care settings where many patients are on ridiculous waiting lists for cardiac care or oncology services.

So, you can choose to wrap it in the beautiful Christmas wrapping and bows of your choice, but either way you look its still a pile of shit with a fancy wrapping.

I know this rant is a bit off topic from the original posting, but I suppose I was due to vent some frustration. Both from a medical provider and a patient view, it is not all roses in our "socialized" medical model.

I do think that with the government paying in socialized medicine that people do abuse the system more often. They figure that if they call 911, they will get seen sooner, even if it is for a stubbed toe. People are known to frequent the ER for splinters, a sore throat, the sniffles, etc....which is true of everywhere I suppose.

If someone knows you will be the most expensive taxi ride of their life (not the $45 fee that the patient must pay here versus the ~$900 ALS fee in some states of the US) and that they are going to foot the bill, they will be less likely to call for inappropriate reasons (in some cases).

Anyhow, I have spent a few years researching on this topic with a professor as well as debating both sides of the fence. This discussion is a good one, and needs to be pondered by all health professionals.

Rant over.