hand cuffed patients

[EMS828]

i would like to know if any other ems agencies run into problems, when they take a patient to the emergency room in hand cuffs............... My clinical coordinator and medical control say that a hand cuffed patient law enforcement needs to be in the back of the ambulance. I took a patient awhile ago without law enforcement.............. i didnt get into trouble but talked to because i when against protocol.......... any thoughts or feelings guys/ gals

[JakeEMTP]

Was your patient cuffed prior to beginning transport, or did you use them as a restraint? We have taken patients cuffed from a scene without LEO on board and never heard anything about it. 9 times out of 10 the Hospital PD will meet us under the canopy and once in the assigned room, the cuffs will be removed and the patient restrained to the stretcher. If it is a " upstanding member of society" being transported from " Club Fed" then a LEO is riding with us. I personally don't like doing it, but that is the nature of the beast.

After all, personal safety is the first thing taught in Basic class and nobody loves me more than me. :wink:

[JPINFV]

I did a few jail transports when I was working as an basic. Both times the patient was transported handcuffed and both times a corrections officer rode in the back with the patient. Technically speaking, the law enforcement officer is allowed to follow the ambulance in their unit with the patient handcuffed, but that is discouraged.

[crazyemt5150]

In Kern County Per our EMS department, when transporting a pt hand cuffs an officer needs to ride with us in the back just in case we need to get the cuff's off for some odd reason. A couple medics here and myself actually carry a handcuff key on us for that reason some officer's don't always want to ride but they are universal. But thats typically out protocol

[tskstorm]

I transported someone not to long ago, who had confessed to a murder, after attempting suicide. He had cut both wrists laterally, and had stitches in both by the nearest ER, upon taking him to a state psych center, the police were unable to handcuff him. This presented a unique situation where they wanted to use handcuffs but could not. What happened, was 3 police officers were in the back of the ambulance, and we had a convoy of detectives, and police, followed by a convoy of media who weren't supposed to know when the transport was.

This provided another unique issue, upon leaving the first hospital, media was all over. and to protect our patient he was covered and remained not visible to camera's. We got to the red light at the corner and photographers were literally standing on the back of the ambulance trying to take pictures inside of it. Upon this action P.D. asked us to go through the red light, which as much as it was against my better judgment to run a light, I did it to protect my patients confidentiality.

thoughts?

[Dustdevil]

Upon this action P.D. asked us to go through the red light, which as much as it was against my better judgment to run a light, I did it to protect my patients confidentiality.

Your patient's "confidentiality" was not even remotely an issue. I'm not sure where you even get that idea. If it were, we'd be covering up every patient at every scene and running through redlights. We don't. Cops don't run EMS, and don't let them try. If they want me to run a red light, fight the media, or anything else, they can get bent. Not my job. And not their job to tell me how to do my job.

[Lone Star]

Your patient's "confidentiality" was not even remotely an issue. I'm not sure where you even get that idea. If it were, we'd be covering up every patient at every scene and running through redlights. We don't. Cops don't run EMS, and don't let them try. If they want me to run a red light, fight the media, or anything else, they can get bent. Not my job. And not their job to tell me how to do my job.

I would have to agree with Dust on this one. Just as we don't tell the local law enforcement troops how to secure a scene, process a ticket, or run their investigation, they have no business trying to tell us how to do our job.

It sounds to me, like the whole 'media circus feeding frenzy' was their own doing. I mean, even though this guy was an alleged confessed murderer, a couple officers in the rig, and maybe one unmarked unit behind the rig should have been sufficient, they turned it into some presidential motorcade.

[strippel]

I have taken many patients who are either "in custody", or under arrest and in handcuffs, without an LEO in the ambulance.

Any patient out of the county prison gets two extremities cuffed to the litter, and a prison guard rides in the ambulance, another follows in a car.

With the city or township police, anything can happen. If the arresting officer is in a car alone, he will usually handcuff the patient (to the litter if a chance of problems), and then follow. Bike officers put the bike in the back of the ambulance. Mounted officers, we tried, but there is not enough room. We thought about a hitch for the horse trailer on the ambulance, or bungee cords for the roof, but... If police are in a two man car, not a problem.

We have regularly transported handcuffed patients without LEO in, or following. At the hospital, there is almost always a city officer working. Most security staff are LEOs, and are able to watch the patient until the arresting officer arrives.

Luckily, we have not had any criminal/EMS media circuses.

[FormerEMSLT297]

tksstorm:... instead of running red lights and potentially getting into an accident, for which you will be blamed regardless of what the cops told you. Next time, try covering the rear windows with spare sheets, blankets, or cardboard with tape.

Or you can explain to the suspect that you are "protecting" them and put a blanket over their head.

The other thing is this,, the cops probably, didn't want to have the suspects photo circulated.

It is very hard to seat an "impartial" jury, for a high profile case, when the suspects face has been plastered all over TV, and print media.

The other thing is ,, if they have any eye witnesses, they don't want them to see the suspects photo before they can view a line up. Because it would come out at trial that they say the suspects photo on TV and that would taint the eyewitness testimony.

Thoughts from the Law Enforcement side of the house..

Former

[FireMedic65]

patient is cuffed.. they are in police custody... the officer can't leave them by law