"Paramedic's save lives, EMT's save Paramedics"

[medic001918]

What the heck kind of question is that? How ELSE do you save your paramedic OR basic partner?

There's a difference by "saving" your partner by having a good working knowledge of the body, treatment's, etc and someone catching an error caused by the very partner you've "saved." If I take out Sodium BiCard instead of D50 for a diabetic, that's a fundamental mistake that I shouldn't have made in the first place. If you pick up on a beta blocker overdose somehow and your partner wasn't going there, that's a different issue. Two entirely different levels of thinking. If people have to "save" their partners all the time from stupid mistakes, then those partners shouldn't be practicing at their given level in the first place.

Shane

NREMT-P

[nypamedic43]

I can honestly say that I have never saved my medic partner. I do however, question them ALL the time. NOT because I want to point a potential mistake, but because I want to understand why they did something. For example...a woman with a BP of 246/140....me-"why did you give her nitro?? she wasnt having chest pain....yes I know that nitro is a vasodilator....partner's answer....because its a vasodilator it opens up the whole "container" thereby making it bigger which in turn will lower the pressure...... me-- ahhhh ok now i understand"

I just want to understand the information as it comes to me, and if I have a question I ask it. Luckily I have partners that are willing to answer those questions, and not say look your just a basic, Im the medic and thats the way it is, dont bother me.

[Chief1C]

OP: Yanno, if the only joy you get in EMS, is telling someone else they are wrong, maybe it's time for a career change.

[weasel 108]

Okay, I'll chime in. My full time medic partner and I were on a cardiac arrest. He was attempting to insert the tube, when I noticed that he had the tube upside down with the stylete heading into Pt's throat. All I did was whisper to him that the tube was upside down, Later after the call he thanked me. I did not "save" his ass.

With some of the EMT's I've seen in my area, the slogan should read "Paramedics save EMT's asses"

Oh yea, I will not buy one of those damn t-shirts "Paramedics save lives, EMT's save paramedics".

[medic001918]

OP: Yanno, if the only joy you get in EMS, is telling someone else they are wrong, maybe it's time for a career change.

As the OP (Original Poster), where did I say that I find joy in telling someone else they are wrong? I was simply breaking out a topic from another thread trying to gain that aspect of the thread more exposure. Actually, I'm more the type to help educate my partner (medic or basic) than to point out their shortcomings. But you can interpret that any way you see fit. But please, just so I can be clear...point to where I said I found joy in telling someone else they are wrong? So no, I don't think it's time for a career change. I'm quite content being a paramedic. I look forward to your response.

Shane

NREMT-P

[DwayneEMTP]

...As a basic (assuming nothing more than EMT-B training), you're more than likely not sure of what a paramedic knows and doesn't know...In my first few months of paramedic school we were simply coming to realize what I didn't know about the big picture when it comes to patient care.

When I read this it occurred to me that perhaps this is the reason for the disconnect between medics and basics on this issue..

With each class that I take the picture gets bigger and bigger. There are times when I'm unable even to keep the edges in view!

As a basic (speaking only for myself), trouble breathing = Obstruction. Foreign body, positional, or some undefined medical problem.

As a medic student, trouble breathing = Obstruction be it foreign body, chemical, structural, many options of blood/gas exchange barriers, volume, electrolyte, or cardiac issues, and on and on...

My point here isn't arrogance, it's simply that we continue to blame basics for the things they don't know, and therefore can't be realistically expected to understand.

It's like when my wife wants to explain problems to me that she has no intention of fixing. I don't get that...it makes no sense...anyone should be able to see that she is obviously wrong in this approach...yet gazillions of smart, successful, emotionally sound women view this the same way. And they are right. I simply don't have the necessary equipment to understand it.

I guess I'm wonder if, after trying to make this point to basics a hundred times in the same way, if perhaps changing the way we view the problem might change the way we address the problem, and help lead to a solution.

There are some very, very smart basics on this board. I simply can't believe that the concept that lower education will seldom have the ability to save higher education (Though I absolutely believe that higher experience can often save less experience) is getting by them, or causing any real confusion...

There's got to be something else going on....

Have a great day all!

Dwayne

[medic001918]

Great post Dwayne.

Shane

NREMT-P

[AnthonyM83]

There's a difference by "saving" your partner by having a good working knowledge of the body, treatment's, etc and someone catching an error caused by the very partner you've "saved." If I take out Sodium BiCard instead of D50 for a diabetic, that's a fundamental mistake that I shouldn't have made in the first place. If you pick up on a beta blocker overdose somehow and your partner wasn't going there, that's a different issue. Two entirely different levels of thinking. If people have to "save" their partners all the time from stupid mistakes, then those partners shouldn't be practicing at their given level in the first place.

I think you misunderstand what that saying means, then. That saying is often said along with saying about medics forgetting BLS. It means that while the medic is all wrapped up in his treatments, the basic who is a little less narrowed-in can catch something.

Nowhere does it say it's only if a basic picks up on a medical issue that the medic didn't (which really in that case, the medic technically either made a mistake or wasn't proficient enough or patient situation was of a degree where two medics would be needed...in which cases you could STILL save a medic). You constructed the saying into something different so that no one would be able to answer.

[medic001918]

That's what makes a forum format great is that people can interpret things as they wish. So far, I haven't heard a story in any context of someone saving their paramedic partner. And that's with over a complete page of posts. I'd love to hear any interpretation, with stories of saving your paramedic partners as an EMT. I can honestly say that I've never had an EMT "save" me as a paramedic. I, as well as others I'm thinking are still waiting to hear stories of the paramedics that were saved...

Shane

NREMT-P

[FredG]

I can honestly say that I have never "saved" a paramedic. There have been times that I pointed out something or identified issues found on a secondary assessment that made the paramedic change his treatment, but that is part of being a team.

There is only one instance, about 10 years ago, that I ever wrote up a paramedic partner for a patient care issue. We were assigned to a BLS call due to no BLS units in the area, a fall where the patient struck his head/neck area on the curb of the sidewalk and complaining of head, neck and back pain. My medic partner was evaluating and I pulled out the board and collar...he told me to put it away as it is not needed, so I asked him if he was sure that we shouldn't immobilize and he again told me to put the board away. Then he started an IV. While transporting, I called base and asked for a supervisor to respond to the hospital for a patient care issue incident report. Well, while the medic was being reamed by the doctor in the ED, I was writing up an incident report with my supervisor to CYA myself. The ED did find trauma to C5, but luckily no neuro deficit.

So, yes, this is a situation that required BLS skills and the medic screwed up. However, he is higher medical authority so I followed his orders and just did what I had to to cover my arse.