"Paramedic's save lives, EMT's save Paramedics"

[AnthonyM83]

That's what makes a forum format great is that people can interpret things as they wish. So far, I haven't heard a story in any context of someone saving their paramedic partner. And that's with over a complete page of posts. I'd love to hear any interpretation, with stories of saving your paramedic partners as an EMT.

Hopefully people try to interpret communications as they were meant. Not always possible, especially online in this forum, but that doesn' make it a "great" quality of the forum, rather something to try to avoid (misinterpretation).

In order to continue reading my post, one must also read my previous one , so you understand my stance: http://www.emtcity.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=130286#130286

Now, you've requested examples of EMTs saving medics with any interpretation. That's better than original request, BUT I don't really know what the point would be. There are countless examples out there. If two people work together for a long time, you're going to catch each other's mistakes (both ways).

To suggest it doesn't happen or that stories would be hard to come by implies you think each medic is so good that he would never open himself up to having something critical pointed out by someone, even another medic (because if it's something another medic could catch, there's the possibility an EMT could happen to know a bit about that topic and catch it, too).

[Lone Star]

I've never had a medic partner, but would welcome that opportunity AS LONG AS I didnt get put down as some inferior human being because I dont have EMT-P after my name.

The only time I saw a medic make glaring mistakes that could have cost a pt their life was when I was the patient.

A proper IPS was not done, vitals were not completely or accurately assessed, and no treatments were given in my speciffic situation.

I contacted the local medical control board, and they agreed that there was gross negligence on the medics part and unfortunately, he no longer has a license in the state of Michigan.

Before I even contacted the Medical Control Board, I made sure to discuss the events and what my treatments should have beeen (by protocol for paramedics in that county).

I don't like this Medic vs Basic pissing match. We're all part of the EMS system, and our main goal should be to provide the patient with the best care our scope of practice allows! We all put our boots on one at a time, and no one should run around feeling 'superior' to someone else because they haven't got the same education. There could be mitigating factors involved that prevented the person from moving up in training.

I agree that we all have our place in the EMS system, and it's not a 'me against you' situation!

Leave the 'adversarial system' to the lawyers!

[CBEMT]

I don't think I've ever "saved a medic."

I have, however, prevented harm from coming to the patient.

So... I saved the patient?

Hmm. I think I can live with that.

[Asysin2leads]

Okay, I'll chime in. My full time medic partner and I were on a cardiac arrest. He was attempting to insert the tube, when I noticed that he had the tube upside down with the stylete heading into Pt's throat. All I did was whisper to him that the tube was upside down, Later after the call he thanked me. I did not "save" his ass.

With some of the EMT's I've seen in my area, the slogan should read "Paramedics save EMT's asses"

Oh yea, I will not buy one of those damn t-shirts "Paramedics save lives, EMT's save paramedics".

I think in the other post I made mention of the fact that if you really ever saved your paramedic partner then you were working with a really dumbass medic. The prosecution rests.

[Dustdevil]

As the OP (Original Poster), where did I say that I find joy in telling someone else they are wrong?

I'm thinking that CMK must have been talking about our EMT's, not you. :wink:

And I would agree. In fact, I would like all EMTs to know that it is indeed time for a career change.

[Asysin2leads]

I think in the other post I made mention of the fact that if you really ever saved your paramedic partner then you were working with a really dumbass medic. The prosecution rests.

OKAY OKAY WAIT A MINUTE!!! Yes, I'm replying to my own post. Deal with it. I may have just done a 17 hour shift on 3 hours of sleep, so I'm a little slow, but I do catch on eventually.

First off, WHADDYA MEAN the tube was upside down? Are you saying the medic was trying to push the plastic ET adapter into the patient's throat? Can you even put the adapter on the wrong end? And WHADDYA MEAN the stylet was going into the patient's throat? When you're intubating, that's what's SUPPOSED to happen!!! See? Yeah, I picked up on that...about like 15 minutes after reading it, sure, but anyway, I call shenanigans. SHENANIGANS!

[Dustdevil]

First off, WHADDYA MEAN the tube was upside down? Are you saying the medic was trying to push the plastic ET adapter into the patient's throat? Can you even put the adapter on the wrong end? And WHADDYA MEAN the stylet was going into the patient's throat? When you're intubating, that's what's SUPPOSED to happen!!! See? Yeah, I picked up on that...about like 15 minutes after reading it, sure, but anyway, I call shenanigans. SHENANIGANS!

LOL! I have to admit I spent a considerable amount of time myself trying to visualise exactly what took place there! I see several different possibilities:

• 1. The tube was upside down, the stylet was rightside up, and he was trying to put the adapter through the cords.

2. The tube was rightside up, the stylet was upside down, and he was trying to intubate with no way of removing the stylet afterwards.

3. Both the tube and the stylet were upside down, and he was trying to shove both through the cords.

4. He picked up the tube to prepare for intubation, and way before he was even ready to start sticking it anywhere, the EMT decided to show how much he knew about advanced skills by reminding the medic to turn the tube over before it was even necessary.

5. The EMT doesn't know enough about intubation to even know what he saw.

• Having watched enough episodes of "Paramedics," I realise that none of those are really out of the realm of possibility.

[kevkei]

Having watched enough episodes of "Paramedics," I realise that none of those are really out of the realm of possibility.

That show was good for two things:

1. Lists the places of where not to get sick.

2. A good example of what EMS is not.

[Dustdevil]

No kidding! I bet it was even less palatable in Canadia!

It's like every episode was almost a parody of real EMS. Every run they showed, I found myself thinking, "Is this the bizarro world, or what?"

Actually, I've only seen a few episodes of "Paramedics." It's nothing I ever went looking for. I just stumbled across it a few times. It's like a train wreck. You know you shouldn't watch, but you just can't help yourself. The one episode I specifically remember was with AMR in Orlando. They start off with this crew, and these two guys are on camera telling us how they were recently chosen as "Crew Of The Year." Then they proceeded to fumble every run they made.|

I'd hate to meet their worst crew of the year! :shock:

[NREMT-Basic]

Phil, meant with no sarcasm...

How do you define better in terms of the EMS field?

Why does this question make the people that use this statement so angry? Why are they never willing to simply tell their stories and be done with it?

If a basic saves a medic, simply because s/he's not a medic, would a first responder or boy scout save them equally well, as they meet the same requirement of being a "non medic?"

Is it your feeling that "medics save lives, basics save medics" is a valid statement?

Dwayne

If I may, I think what he meant was that no medic is better than any EMT simply because he wears the country club patch on his sleeve. There are VERY good and VERY bad Basics and VERY GOOD and VERY BAD Medics. When a medic is VERY BAD, it is much more obvious because of the level of interventions they are performing. Its gonna be much more obvious that he or she sucks or doesnt know what they are doing when putting down an ET than a combi simply because statistically there is a much narrower margin of error. The combi has a built in HUGE margin to it.

The time in recent memory that I locked horns with a medic over something he did was my fault. By the time I worked with him, he had been a medic for about 3 months and I had been an EMT for about 18 months. Keep in mind if you will that he works for a service who is known for botching IV starts...I mean blood on the floor, on the cot, on the cabinets in the rig...its bad. He tried six starts before he accidentally got a good one. On this successful "attempt," I said "I dont think you blew that one." Looking back I see why he wanted to choke me. I was helping him get the start and all I meant was, "I dont think that one infiltrated or rolled." He took it to mean "that one didnt suck." Both were true. But this was a conversation between me and the medic I was assisting, not me calling him on the carpet as it were.

Right now I am getting ready to take phlebotomy which will allow me to start simple lines in the disaster response team I work with. This is not so I can do it to say I do it, its the rules of the service and its there because when we are working all hell is breaking loose and I might be called upon to start a line while the Medic does something else. Im also taking a civilian version of 68Whiskey training because the areas we work in are often like war zones, minus the bullets (or not, depending...).

Its hard to for me to think in the EMS terms I was trained in any more. In the field of Disaster Medicine, the BLS team member reports to ALS, ALS reports to charge nurse, charge nurse reports to nurse commander and we are all relied on to know what we can and cannot do. As I reported in another posting, some Basics can do things that others cant, depending on what EMS region they are from. In field medicine, we have to look at the medic-basic relationship like doctor-nurse. Im there to do the things I can on my own, and to assist the medic (or sometimes even have medics assist me if they happen to be walking by and its a BLS procedure). Disaster Medicine by definition is all about the first 72-hours post disaster. Everyone has to have excellent skills, well practiced because a Chief Medical Officer (IE Physician) may not be on scene for 36 hours into the 72.

It helps to put things in proper perspective when we are all sleeping in disposable tents, eating MREs and getting malaria together. Its a team effort. One person is not better than the other because he is ALS vs BLS. Any basic who doesnt get that equation is going to hate his job and not last very long. Any medic who doesnt is going to hate his partner and not use them the way they were trained to function.

HOW COPY?