My last word on this whole EMT-B/Medic/Medic Student stuff

[Asysin2leads]

Okay, we have several threads on EMT-B/medic/who knows what and when. So here is my condensed history of EMS experience. When I got my first First Responder training, I thought I was something special. When I did well in my EMT-B course, I thought I knew a lot about it, when I got into the field, I realized I actually knew very little. Then after a few years as an EMT-B I thought I knew my stuff for sure. Then came my paramedic course, and I realized I still knew very little. When I graduated with honors from that, with my recitation and memory skills, I was certain I had it down cold. Then I started working the field and again, it hit me that even then I wasn't ready to treat. For the past couple of years I have worked as a paramedic, with people more senior than me, and I had my share of hairy situations and close calls, and looking back, I was sure I had it down. I was still wrong, because now, I'm a "mentor unit", working with paramedics with zero field experience, and you know what? I realize now there are STILL things I have to work on. I didn't realize how much I relied on the senior staff until I became the senior staff and now, only now, can I really say that after 10 years of doing this, I am really starting to work as a paramedic and consider myself as such. So when the old crusty paramedic who taught my Fire Department orientation class pulled me aside and said "You're not really a paramedic, not yet, it won't be until your first refresher that you can really do this," I'm see now, that while he pissed me off at the time and I took it personally, all in all, he was absolutely right.

So, when I call an EMT-B or I or newbie onto the mat here, its not because I'm saying "I'm better than you are," its because I'm saying "I was once where you were, I only know now what I didn't realize then, just as you don't realize the same thing now."

[Scaramedic]

I agree A2L. Now that I am back in college and re-taking such things as A&P, Chemistry and Psychology I am realizing how much I have forgotten or didn't know. It shows we can never learn it all and should never stop educating ourselves.

Peace,

Marty

[AnthonyM83]

I really doubt the even the people who were seriously using that EMT save paramedics line honestly thought they were at the level of the paramedics...rather that there were instances where they were able to "save" (whatever that means at this point)...jump in to correct a critical point (for lack of better definition)....unless I missed a post where someone did say that....and if so, I bet it was only one or two, not a widespread.

[Dustdevil]

So, when I call an EMT-B or I or newbie onto the mat here, its not because I'm saying "I'm better than you are," its because I'm saying "I was once where you were, I only know now what I didn't realize then, just as you don't realize the same thing now."

And that is just another glaring example of the cluelessness of the undereducated. We keep hearing the absolute BS nonsense about, "You medics have forgotten where you came from!" or "You forget that you were an EMT once too!" That is really the most clueless, asinine thing said here on a regular basis. It is because we remain so keenly aware of where we came from, and what it was like as an EMT, that we are so qualified to discuss the differences!

How is it that an EMT -- or any person with a high school education -- can be so stupid as to suggest that I don't understand where they are when I have been where they are, yet they have never been where I am?

Now that I am back in college and re-taking such things as A&P, Chemistry and Psychology I am realizing how much I have forgotten or didn't know. It shows we can never learn it all and should never stop educating ourselves.

And honestly, Marty, don't you wish to God that you had all that education BEFORE becoming a paramedic, instead of after leaving the field? I know for sure that I do! Yet -- as if to prove that stupidity is not exclusive to EMTs -- how often is it that we hear medics and medic students telling us that all those "non-EMS" courses wouldn't make them a better medic, because that "piece of paper" is meaningless?

And that is a point that too many EMTs and volunteers seem to miss around here. Those of us who "bash" most, are equal opportunity bashers. Idiots exist at all levels, and I for one am not afraid to call them out. The only reason that EMTs may seem to get bashed more here is simple: First, because there are more of them, and second, because more of them have attitude.

[jsadin]

I think what tends to peeve people off is that in some cases they get beat down unnecessarily instead of corrected/redirected. Yes, some people need a good, swift reality check upside the head, but in the vast majority of cases you can educate without humiliating someone. It's difficult and takes self control, but it can be done effectively. I recently completed my intermediate (last year) and the docs/preceptors whom I learned the most from were the ones who treated me with respect and did not speak down to me. The lessons that the arrogant/insulting attempted to impress upon me were for the most part lost because I was angry at being treated in such a manner (I'm damn near 40 and not some snot nosed kid). I'll admit to thinking back on what they were trying to say later and learning from it, but the same lessons could have been taught without the condescension.

I'm an engineer at my full time job and constantly deal with those who do not have my education or experience (20yrs in high tech). Some think they know better than I even when it's obvious that they are off their rocker. I don't berate them or treat them poorly....I simply prove them wrong and try to explain why they are wrong.

Encouraging people to improve themselves and guiding them on the path is what is needed. Just because your mentors may have talked down to you doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

[EMT*Sweet]

Well, I see we're still having the EMS Pissin Contest.

Why is that WE ALL cant just respect each others level of training and realize that we are all in this for the same reason( might be a few variances on the meanings)

First responders & EMT-B's learn your rightful place<< Your on the bottom of the EMS foodchain- Be proud of what you know and continue on with your quest to obtain a more vast area of knowledge within the EMS field. Educate, Educate, EDUCATEEEE!!! Work hard to rise in the ranks.

Medics<< Take a stroll down memory lane and review the days of when your deiriere was nothing but a snack for those who were above you. Take the time to patiently quide and educate the rambuncious ones below you....

For those of you in between<< EAT CHICKEN !! read chicken post to get the full meaning.... Spread some EMS love in the meantime...

[AMESEMT]

jsadin-

I think you say it best.

I think what tends to peeve people off is that in some cases they get beat down unnecessarily instead of corrected/redirected. Yes, some people need a good, swift reality check upside the head, but in the vast majority of cases you can educate without humiliating someone.

That is what my post "Dissapointment" was all about. I don't mind when someone corrects/redirects me. It is the manner in which they do it. Like you, the message is lost on me when someone is arrogant/insulting because I am pissed that they did not respect me and treated me like "a snot nosed kid." (I know I am young, but I am smarter than I look). I know I am the lowest on the EMS totem pole and that I don't have the education a paramedic does, but I constantly keep an open mind when I am around paramedics because I want to learn. It is all about approach.

Like you said (jsadin) some people need a good, swift reality check though.

Asys- I understand and believe the same thing you are saying. I know I don't know everything, I am here to learn and be educated. I don't know the whole picture and probably never will, but I will continue to strive to understand more of it.

AMESEMT

[AnthonyM83]

I seriously think there's an argument being created where there is none...everyone wants to put in their word on EMTs not knowing enough, but no one really arguing against it....

[NREMT-Basic]

jsadin-

I think you say it best.

That is what my post "Dissapointment" was all about. I don't mind when someone corrects/redirects me. It is the manner in which they do it. Like you, the message is lost on me when someone is arrogant/insulting because I am pissed that they did not respect me and treated me like "a snot nosed kid." (I know I am young, but I am smarter than I look). I know I am the lowest on the EMS totem pole and that I don't have the education a paramedic does, but I constantly keep an open mind when I am around paramedics because I want to learn. It is all about approach.

Like you said (jsadin) some people need a good, swift reality check though.

Asys- I understand and believe the same thing you are saying. I know I don't know everything, I am here to learn and be educated. I don't know the whole picture and probably never will, but I will continue to strive to understand more of it.

AMESEMT

Actually, first responders are the lowest on the EMS totem pole. Whats its really about is each member of a crew knowing their jobs. The medic needs a tegaderm patch, I get it for him. He needs and IV start setup, I get it and pop it open. My job is to anticipate that medics needs and meet them before he even asks. When we are out on the sidewalk boarding a patient, i should be in the process of collaring and packaging before he ever asks. We get in the rig and he goes to the jump seat and I sit on the crew bench where I can get at all supplies without him having to get up. If youve ever worked or done time in an OR, its the same deal. Our job is to anticipate based on our training and repetition and meet the needs of the medic which are linked directly to the need of the patient. Im also in the business of providing patient comfort: are they warm enough, do they need some air conditioning? We are patient care technicians and we assist the medic.

If any EMT who feels s*** on by their medic needs to see how good they have it, come out to a DMAT or IMERT camp sometime. You'll learn your place very quickly and the idea of questioning the medic, let alone our field docs goes right out the window. Here you will find that there are docs, then nurse commanders, then nurses, then medics, then EMTs....and then a whole host of warrant officers and chiefs who have nothing to do with medicine but who still outrank ya. Its the name of the game. If I have a Logistics Chief tell me what to do, its because he has been at it longer, probably has prior military experience and is trying to keep me from getting dead while i try to do my job. CHeck all egos at the door...no room for them in EMS. I am also very protective of those above me...screw with them and you will find yourself face down in the dirt real quick.

Your mileage may vary.

[Connie31079]

Unfortunately, regardless of the topic, some people in here take great pleasure in intimidating and humiliating others, regardless of their level.

Guess it makes them feel better about themselves. :roll: