Too Many Emergency Teams?

[brentoli]

Its amazing. With all of the hooplah about the IMERT in this thread, I was doing some research. Maybe this team really does have its place.

I read a few reports to congress about bio-terrorism, a few about homeland natural disasters. Searched the House, Senate, CDC, DHS, and Suregon General websites. No where was IMERT to be found.

As far as the Ill. state government website, besides all of the patting themselves on the back from Katrina, the only mention was in 2004 where the following amount of pork was distrubuted...

[*]Illinois Poison Control Center, $500,000, to have in place trained staff that can respond to public and hospital inquiries, and help with rumor control, in the event of a terrorist attack. The center also will develop printed information.

[*]Illinois College of Emergency Physicians, $500,000, to assist Illinois Medical Emergency Response Teams (IMERT) positioned in Chicago and north, central and southern parts of the state, and help train emergency physicians on how to deal with and recognize symptoms caused by weapons of mass destruction.

[*]Illinois State Emergency Nurses Association, $75,000, to develop a database of volunteer nurses available to deal with a surge in victims and to train them in disaster response.

[*]Illinois Council of Health Systems Pharmacists, $50,000, to create a pool of pharmacists and pharmacist trainees that could help distribute drugs in the event of an emergency.

[p3medic]

Now lets not hurt peoples feelings by getting personal. We like to discuss and disagree but in defense of NREMT-Basic, I am sure they act more professional than the militia pics.

Well having been to thier website, those pics aren't far off the mark....

[Scaramedic]

First off, I only used the National Guard as a standard of who is doing the most emergency response in the nation. I did not intend to equate the N.G. with volley agencies, I was basically pointing out that N.G. units are already trained to do what many of these ERT's are training for now. Trust me the last people in the world who I want to piss off is the N.G. Our local unit has a M109 in their yard that could take out my house with just a turn of the turret and a little elevation.

:shock:

Second, this debate is not about IMERT, I am sure that IMERT is a great organization. I only brought up IMERT because of the bloviating of one it's junior members on this site. The questions I bring up are not about the nature of each group but rather why we have so many.

Peace,

Marty

[Doczilla]

DING DING DING! WRONG. Common sense says bad idea to have so many people doing the same thing. Waste of money and resources. Do you know how many government auctions I have gone to and bought basically brand new equipment that has sit just in case in some warehouse? To many to count. Lets not add to government waste, if money is available give to to areas with limited resources to use daily and still be available for disaster response. Oops my bad no common sense allowed.

Your post here indicates that you really don't know what each of these different teams does. First responders, USAR, DMAT, and MRC are not all doing the same thing. Effectively they represent different eschelons of care. While there is some overlap, there is a substantial amount of equipment that is unique to each eschelon of care and therefore inappropriate to be in the hands of a first responder agency.

By having mobile push-packs of drugs warehoused at strategic locations, they are able to be mobilized to areas needing them quickly. Rather than having them stored under questionable conditions at every hoopdie jolly volly station in the state, they can be monitored, tracked, and accessed in short order when needed.

You could train thousands upon thousands of basic EMTs for weeks on end to provide the kind of extended care that an ACC would provide, and they still would be inadequately prepared. Since we have a hard enough time training paramedics on an ongoing basis in the basic functions of the job that they do every day, I think that this would be a tall order.

Again, think mobile, scalable, and flexible. The system actually saves money.

'zilla

[brentoli]

You could train thousands upon thousands of basic EMTs for weeks on end to provide the kind of extended care that an ACC would provide, and they still would be inadequately prepared. Since we have a hard enough time training paramedics on an ongoing basis in the basic functions of the job that they do every day, I think that this would be a tall order.

Again, think mobile, scalable, and flexible. The system actually saves money.

'zilla

Not to debate the merits of IMERT, but since it is our example of the hour, Doc, how can we say IMERT is anymore prepared, when on its website it says they are required to train 2 days out of the year?

[brentoli]

First off, I only used the National Guard as a standard of who is doing the most emergency response in the nation. I did not intend to equate the N.G. with volley agencies, I was basically pointing out that N.G. units are already trained to do what many of these ERT's are training for now.

In the reports to congress I was referring to earlier, National Guard was refrenced more then any other agency. Pubilc Health Crisis... Call NG. CBRNE incident.... Call NG. Natural disater eliminating local resources.... call NG. For every thing out there the NG has specialty teams that are ready to go. They are trained, cross-trained, and educated in policy, procedure, protocols, specific trades, and everything else needed.

[Scaramedic]

Zilla,

I think you and I are on the same page. We both believe that these teams are a neccessity and should be controlled at the federal level. I am not arguing the point that this should be left to the local level. My statement is that the teams we have, the equipment/meds should stay were they are. I also understand that USAR, DMAT & MRC can have different objectives, though I feel the overlap is larger than you do.

My concern is both efficiency and cost. History of recent events show that many times these teams were combined by the neccessity of the situation. Why not put all these teams under a unified command structure, and not a joke like NIMS or ICS. The way the system worked for Katrina was Louisiana put out a call and volley teams all over the nation saddled up and rode on down. This ended up with teams getting swamped while others sat around handing out bottled water. If we had a unified system then the teams could be dispatched to where they are needed. Mobilized to the exact spot with the exact size needed team. With the ability to quickly up-scale the event as needed much quicker and safer than the system we have now. DMAT can still be DMAT, MRC can still send Docs & Nurses to understaffed hospitals, but in a major incident they all fall under one command. They can also train together, and obtain equipment from the same source for better compatibility, and share the same DAMN radio systems.

We have a National Response Plan, why can't we have a National Response Team?

Peace,

Marty

[NREMT-Basic]

We do have a national response team. Its called FEMA. Old Brownie and W froze in their tracks during Katrina. Drive down there and ask folks about IMERT, or the US Coast Guard. Ask those people if they thought they had too much assistance. Or duplication or service. Or if they do now. If we had another Katrina scale event now, the DOD shows the National Guard would be too crippled to respond. Their numbers have been dwindled by Iraq and Afghanistan deaths, broken or missing equipment and people who have simply walked away. To the nay sayers....Put a big orange X on your roof next disaster and also spray "no thanks, Ill wait for the NG and FEMA." Which would you rather have? A response wheels up in four hours, or a 72? 72 is what youll get with the NG and FEMA. As God said to Noah: How long can you tread water?

Its put up or shut up time. Or perhaps I should say join up or shut up. And remember...when the water starts rising...stay where you are...we'll get to you. We'll be the ones in the khaki BDUs with the Illinois Department of Public Health patch on our sleeves.

[NREMT-Basic]

I was going to question the 33,000 number. Especially since there is the "we have" statement. I have not heard of a MCI that large in my life time. Where and was this event? If I slept through it or was during my college years, I apologize!!

Sarge

Its called Katrina and when I said we I was talking about IMERT, DMATs, FEMA, NG, ANG, USCG and its Auxiliary. Most of the private providers were headed for higher ground or had their assets wiped out.

[NREMT-Basic]

NREMT-Basic, you did not provide any factual information on what you can do over local hospitals and EMS in the event of an avian flu pandemic. I am trying to say this respectfully, but the only thing of any substance you described was "supportive care," which you did not even describe. I asked specifically what you can do over local EMS and hospitals. The more details you can provide, the better.

This quote reminds me of volunteer EMTs who are going to save us all.

Its called the National Drug Stockpile. Ever heard of it. Can you see past your locality enough to know that caches of equipment, drugs and other supplies are kept all over the US. Do you have the key? People like IMERT and others do. I dont know where the caches are because Im not supposed to. I only have to know how to use what they give me.

What you dont realize is what these teams actually do. Say its a Biological event:

1. Evaluate

2. Decontaminate

3. START triage

4. Field treat.

5. Evacuate.

6. Repeat ad infinitum.

And for those of you that think NIMS is a joke, Id like to know how much youve trained in it. Im guessing not very far or you have never used it in an actual event.

Im signing off now on this. You can argue till you run out of air. Dont worry. We have that too when the two cylinders you carry crap out.