Too Many Emergency Teams?

[Richard B the EMT]

My brother used to beat the hell out of me, but anybody would mess with me he'ld beat the hell out of them.

Yes. "He's my brother, and only I am allowed to beat him up! Get your own brother!"

[spenac]

But does that mean that when what a town has the $$$ or charter for is a small volly squad to serve its citizens that they shouldnt do it?

Every town has the money for paid EMS if they get their prioritys straight.

All charters can be amended.

Yes you should stop volunteering and force them to pay for your services.

[NREMT-Basic]

As helpful as that was Spenac, I am forced to cry...NEXT!

[spenac]

As helpful as that was Spenac, I am forced to cry...NEXT!

You yourself said it had been discussed to no end so I see no need but to give you the direct truth w/o the gentle touch. It is obvious you have your mind set so why waste a key stroke on you. OOPS I just wasted several, ah darn more and more wasted key strokes.

[certguy]

The great thing about CERT is that in addition to laypeople we also have retired firefighters , medics and EMT's . Working with CERT is the reason I recertified as a basic . The way I see it , in a large incident , if the medics need a spare set of hands , I could go and free up a FF to stay with his crew and do his job . We also have other medical pros .

CERT medical training is very basic and yes , it is a big part of our program . We do offer Red Cross first aid training as well and periodic training sessions . CERT leaders who don't want to do medical aren't looking at the big picture , there won't be enough first responders to go around and mutual aid may not come for a while . As an instructor I would love to see our most active folks become first responders but I'm not holding my breath . Some day maybe . Till then remember that there are some experienced folks in the ranks . By the way , open field rescue is a function of SAR , not CERT , though we probably could be trained for it . We can do light urban SAR . We are trained to search lightly to moderately damaged buildings only . If the building is lightly damaged and there are no other threats , we can treat in place . If moderately damaged , we minimize the number of rescuers inside and evac all survivors to treatment areas . If they're heavily damaged or on fire , we don't enter . If there are rising flood waters , we don't enter . We leave that stuff for the pros who have much better training and equipment . Our job is to get the ball rolling till you get there and take over , then assist you as best we can .

[NREMT-Basic]

I did use improper SAR terminology, however, I know that CERTs in my area have been used for "non-urban" searching.

I think that training to first responder is a great idea. Essentially if CERT members are trained in first aide, CPR and possibly AED, there already there. But if you look at the scheme of the Citizen's Corps, which has "jurisdiction" over CERT teams, medical much higher than bandaides and iodine is the domain of Medical Reserve Corps teams.

In looking at the big picture, yes, I think it can be said that at times there is too much overlap of service that might not be necessary. Redundancy is a good thing in disaster response, but only so many layers deep. Which is why, to my knowledge, MERTs and CERTs and DMATs (oh my!) dont engage in the provision of security, etc. In general I think those functions are left to the police (and Volunteers in Police Service..another Citizens Corps group) and the National Guard.

Now of course, there are companies like Sovereign Deed, Inc that are private providers of Disaster Relief. For rather hefty fees they will supply food, water, medical, security and even evac capabilities to corporations, etc and I suppose to individuals who can afford what I imagine is a pretty hefty price tag. It would be interesting to hear opinions from others about the privatization of disaster response. Is it going to get in the way? Is it actually helpful? Presumably these groups wont be sapping resources away from municipal, state, federal agencies, but are there problems with them? Ive never had to deal with them as I think they are a fairly new animal the disaster response world but I imagine they will become more common just like Blackwater, Hart Securities, etc. Anybody know anything about these private disaster relief companies and how they work?

[Kevin N. Saisi CADC EMT]

Certguy,

While you are obviously welcome to join whatever group you please, and neither program has teams in every location, I believe that your training as an EMT would better serve your community in the Medical Reserve Corps. In a disaster in which both CERT and MRC are present, the MRC will likely be the ones providing the majority of the medical care. CERT teams are trained to provide care for those found while performing other tasks. MRC provides surge capacity for all established health care services from onscene triage to post mortem verification. Of course, each CERT and MRC are run differently. If your community does not have an MRC, your concept of how CERTs can assist will vary from communities in which an MRC does exist. I believe that some of those who are advocating for one group or another on this forum either don't have both teams in their community, or they haven't taken time to learn about the other teams. I am an MRC Unit Coordinator, but have also taken most of the CERT modules, so I am not just blowing hot air when I speak. The MRC comes under ESF #8, while CERT is either ESF #9 or ESF#6 (I don't remember which). If you look it up, you wil see the difference between the two functions.

[certguy]

Hi Kevin ,

I see your point . Being a rural area , we don't have an MRC . I've heard it mentioned in the Americorps section of our CERT classes . I'll admit , I don't know much about it , but I'd like to learn . By the way , I'm not familiar with the ESF numbers you quoted . What are they ?

[Scaramedic]

I think CERT must be 9 (Search & Rescue), 6 (Mass Care) is the Red Cross isn't it?

[SSG G-man]

I may be showing my ignorance, but what does ESF stand for?