ballistics vests for EMS providers?

[courageheartx]

With the increase in violence and corruption within big cities and even in small towns I think it is a good decision to start providing Paramedics or any EMS providers with a ballistics vest. At $1000 for a kevlar vest,these vests are not cheap. Who do you think should pay? Tax payers?Should EMS agencies take up donations and fundraisers for providing our frontline professionals with the proper PPE they need?Possibly. I think either way you look at it, this should be an essential part of "kit" for the job and it should NOT be the obligation of the provider to provider him or herself with these vests. I have added an URL for this article I have found on JEMS. Take a look. What do you think? This has been a question in many EMS agencies.

JEMS articles

[BEorP]

Two things I'm wondering after reading the linked article:

1. How long has Toronto been providing their medics with vests?

2. Is there real evidence that bullet proof vests increase survival in motor vehicle accidents?

[courageheartx]

I would think that the vests themselves protect your internal organs to a certain degree after a collision. Possibly glass or metal penetrating some of the vital organs in your chest cavity. Vests dont necessarily stop a blunt trauma from happening,but it will stop things I mentioned above. Don't participate in activites that would allow for this to happen. Or get a vest and run into a crowd with gunfire. The whole purpose of the vest and PPE is prevention. Yes?No? :wink:

[vs-eh?]

Ya, I don't know where the author of that article got their information from. Toronto does not provide vests to employees in general. Tactical paramedics are provided vests (I don't know if they are individually issued or not), but there are only like 30 (?) of this type of paramedic in the city. Also, generally speaking, they only wear them on ETF calls, which are uncommon at best.

Now, there are people who are on "normal" paramedic duty that wear vests. These people (I presume) paid for the vest themselves. Again, these individuals are certainly the exception, rather than the rule. Maybe 2-3% of "normal" paramedics wear/have a vest (my assumption).

This issue gets brought up every now and again, and it still might be in the works for standard issue. I have not heard of it in a while.

[BEorP]

I would think that the vests themselves protect your internal organs to a certain degree after a collision. Possibly glass or metal penetrating some of the vital organs in your chest cavity. Vests dont necessarily stop a blunt trauma from happening,but it will stop things I mentioned above.

I am not saying that it doesn't make sense. A lot of things make sense in theory but studies need to be done to prove it. Unless there are studies showing that these vests also increase survival in the event of an accident, they should not be using this as a reason to get them.

[Richard B the EMT]

1) In the 1970s, the Burger King fast food hamburger organization held a system wide "fund raiser", using monies from the sale of fries (chips, to you from the UK) to purchase Kevlar Soft Body Armour for various Law Enforcement agencies.

They advertised this by calling it their "inVEST in a Cop!" program.

2) The FDNY made Soft Body Armour available to all in the EMS who wanted them, with proviso that they would only purchase one set per member. Anyone who didn't want a vest signed a paper for the record that, if shot, they, or their families would not hold the FDNY responsible. The issued vest, a level 3 (I think), came with the "carrier" for under the uniform wear, but if a member wanted an over the uniform carrier, it could be purchased at the member's own expense.

2A) Apparently, there is an "expiration date" on these vests. When the date is reached, the FDNY will NOT purchase a newer one for the member.

3) I purchased the over the uniform carrier. I only wear it when going into known or suspected firearms involved calls. Yes, I know this defeats the purpose. However, the carrier looks like something worn by a member of a tactical team, and the union had tried to get one that just looked like a kind of dressy vest, co-ordinated with the uniform.

[Dustdevil]

I am not saying that it doesn't make sense. A lot of things make sense in theory but studies need to be done to prove it. Unless there are studies showing that these vests also increase survival in the event of an accident, they should not be using this as a reason to get them.

Not only have there been studies, there have been thousands of lives saved in the last thirty years since these hit the mass market. I am one of those saves. You want a study? Come see my x-rays.

Yes, these should be required PPE just like gloves and eye protection. Don't wear it? You're fired. Period. Agencies already save a tonne of money on us because, unlike the firemonkeys and cops, we come to work having already payed for our own education. Maybe that works against us. Since they didn't have to invest in our training and education, maybe they don't feel the need to protect us as much as the public safety guys.

It's bad enough that people outside of EMS have no clue about the dangers we face, but everytime some complete idiot of an EMT or medic asks me why I wear a vest, I honestly want to intubate their face with my boot. Especially the fucktards who think they only need to wear it on known violence runs, over their uniform, nonetheless. Seriously, if I ever heard an employee of mine saying something so totally retarded, I'd fire them on the spot and replace them with the next 20 year old rookie that came along. They simply aren't smart enough to be entrusted with human lives.

No worries though. Nobody that lame will ever make it through my hiring and orientation. :twisted:

[NREMT-Basic]

Just make sure you get a vest thats rated for punctures and bullets. A normal (ie run of the mill police vest) ballistic vest will not stop a knife blade or shard of glass as these things slip right between the fibers, or at least they can. I have already ordered one for my disaster response pack. And I agree with Dust that all EMS providers should be wearing them. Of course I also think we should be carrying .40 Springfield XDs too, but that is neither here nor there.

I am also proud to live in a country where Dust can say "fucktard." I fear if I did it often I would get banned. Nevertheless, "fucktard" shall be the rallying cry for free speech! God bless the DustDevil and God Bless America.

[BEorP]

Not only have there been studies, there have been thousands of lives saved in the last thirty years since these hit the mass market. I am one of those saves. You want a study? Come see my x-rays.

Excellent, I was not aware that they had actually studied that. Thanks for the info and in that case I can definitely see how they would be warranted.

[PCB]

God bless the DustDevil and God Bless America.

Dude, you'd better come off him, you're going to leave a welt. Wipe your chin too, I think you have something hanging on there..... :shock:

PC